Thanks for these thoughts Martha. I start off with some skepticism about "the Coddling," because the careers of Haidt and Lukianoff are tied now to a certain POV. And so confirmation bias.
I also feel that both sides of the debate tend to rely on outlier anecdotes and individual experiences.
And if I wanted to distract from the issues of economic inequality and precarity (that goes quite far up the income spectrum) I'm not sure I could think of a better way than to foster debates about DEI and Woke/anti-Woke and the perils of social media. I'm not dismissing them as issues worthy of discussion, but they seem to me to be second or third order issues.
Thanks, David that’s a good point about using the “Coddling” argument against DEI/woke to distract from economic inequality - and yes to confirmation bias or an open acknowledgment of such bias.
Thank you for your perspective Martha. You raise many important, valid points. I am (an open-minded, flexible) progressive who was born in communist Hungary and grew up in Israel, so a RESPECTFUL free speech is something that I really value. I believe that we have more in common than not, which is why I have never been a fan of identity politics. I believe it was well-intended, but does more harm than good. It divides us into groups that are encouraged to hate one another. I am a firm believer in a respectful conversation, which is why I loved the suggestions in your article as to how we could have them! Thank you! Yes, people should feel safe, always. But nowadays the word "safe" has also been used to shut down important conversations. "I don't feel safe" by the slightest challenge and the conversation is over. I feel that some of the criticism aimed at the progressive left about cancellations of dissident voices was valid. The Liberal prime minister I voted for in Canada because he said that "diversity was Canada's strength" behaved in a shocking manner during covid. The trucker's protest should have never gotten so out of hand if those people were at the very least listened to. Honestly, I was so appalled at what was happening in this exemplary liberal democracy, and it triggered some uncomfortable memories from my communist childhood. And now, post October 7 and the ongoing horrors in Gaza, the same people who were so passionately preaching "free speech" called for the cancellation and the firing of people! So cancellation is something that both parties are exercising and are guilty of. I haven't yet watched the documentary (I will) so I cannot comment on it, but "the Witch Trials of JK Rolling" was one of the most thought-provoking podcasts I've ever listened to, and highly recommend.
I am a mother too (to a 13 and 15 y girls) and I see much to be concerned about. Yes, access to phones and social media at a young age is definitely bad, and sometimes dangerous. Lack of constructive, respectful conversations, and NUANCE (because most things are complex!) is another problem. "Either, or" and "us against them" approach is a huge contributor to the problem. Encouraging kids to choose their gender at the age of 11 at a sex ed at school (like my daughters were cued to do) when they barely know what sex is and are still developing, is absolute madness in my opinion. And then, I also think that we parents play a part. As someone who grew up in absolute emotional neglect, I have a natural tendency towards over-protection and "helicopter parenting". While this is understandable, it is not always healthy for our kids.
I'm not sure I have managed to articulate the various complexities and nuances to this question :( All I meant to say was that rarely anything is black or white. They could be valid points to both sides of the argument and the 'truth', or solution is probably somewhere between the two. In conclusion, you give us much to ponder on and I'm grateful.
Imola, thank you so much for this thoughtful comment. Your perspective as someone born in communist Hungary is a really important one. There's a lot of nuance here, which is why I'd like this discussion to continue (and I'll be posting a conversation thread about it today). You raise two important points: the first is the need for respectful communication when debating provocative ideas — that is, listening to what the other person has to say, *really* listening. It's hard to do, but it is where the best conversation I've had come from. With that in mind, alt-right media has fostered extreme disrespect for the other side. You could see the fallout from this hectoring style in the congressional hearing with the three college presidents. They were publicly shamed in manner I find unacceptable.
Your second point is that cancellation is happening on both sides of the political spectrum, a counterpoint that the film doesn't adequately address. The systematic take-down of "critical race theory" by alt-right writers such as Christopher Rufo has led to conservative politicians and parents worrying their white kids will be offended by the very idea that they might be racist or exert white privilege. Forget the trigger warnings; let's just erase teaching of the history of slavery so it doesn't "hurt" kids. Again, I find such erasure unacceptable and very far from the ideal of free speech advocated in the "Coddling" film and book.
Yes, I’m with you Martha! 100%! Respectful conversation starts with really listening- meaning, with the intention to understand, not the intention to respond!! It’s so needed! I am a yoga teacher and writer and has made it my mission to foster these safe spaces where we can listen, try to understand and share our perspectives. I am in for any community/ way of facilitating these difficult conversations. If disappointments/ grievances are not probably addressed , in a vacuum they can morph into something far more dangerous. Jon Stewart said it best: https://youtu.be/6V_sEqfIL9Q?si=hYAVOoHKfKxOFo7t
And I’m with you completely on those 2 examples! Thank you for raising this important issue & perspective. It feels exhausting sometimes to try and make this world a little kinder. Nice to know you have allies! :) 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
That's fabulous, Imola — do you know about the organization Braver Angels? It speaks to having these difficult conversations and might click for your: https://braverangels.org/
This is so fantastic and gives me much hope! I don’t love in the US though. I think by his movement should spread worldwide! The same frictions exist also in Canada, Hungary and Israel (the three countries Im a citizen of), but I’m sure elsewhere!
Sort of, Casey, but the ramped-up tone of the film bothers me, along with the way it's being promoted – it has the feel of a moral panic, without giving any time to the other side, which undercuts the whole message. I agree with the need to encourage healthy debate on campus, but I also believe focusing too much on extreme student behavior and DEI policies skews everything toward a conservative view of all those snowflake kids. And given the concerted attack by the alt-right on DEI now, there are real political ramifications, especially in a film that leans on anecdotal stories and provides no counterpoints.
It's sad that things have gotten to the point where we can largely agree with the content of a work, but be "troubled" because it might be used as propaganda by those by those we *don't* agree with. It's sort of like saying that "The Origin of Species" should not have been published because it might inspire social Darwinism, whether or not or those different ideas have any merit (or whether that was Darwin's intention).
I'd frame the trouble differently, because there is a lot of implicit bias in the "Coddling" film itself – it's not just being used for propaganda. The filmmakers and authors like Greg Lukianoff do not acknowledge their own libertarian biases, and I hold them accountable for that. Their approach results in another kind of speech "chill," one in which they ignore the experiences of those who disagree with them.
I am also sad about the divisive speech of partisan politics and how it influences everything else, but my main culprit for the mess we're in is digital media and those who control the platforms. One of many results is that commentary on either side of the political spectrum now mostly sounds the same, with little divergence of opinion from commentator to commentator. I call that impoverished speech.
Thanks for these thoughts Martha. I start off with some skepticism about "the Coddling," because the careers of Haidt and Lukianoff are tied now to a certain POV. And so confirmation bias.
I also feel that both sides of the debate tend to rely on outlier anecdotes and individual experiences.
And if I wanted to distract from the issues of economic inequality and precarity (that goes quite far up the income spectrum) I'm not sure I could think of a better way than to foster debates about DEI and Woke/anti-Woke and the perils of social media. I'm not dismissing them as issues worthy of discussion, but they seem to me to be second or third order issues.
Thanks, David that’s a good point about using the “Coddling” argument against DEI/woke to distract from economic inequality - and yes to confirmation bias or an open acknowledgment of such bias.
Thank you for your perspective Martha. You raise many important, valid points. I am (an open-minded, flexible) progressive who was born in communist Hungary and grew up in Israel, so a RESPECTFUL free speech is something that I really value. I believe that we have more in common than not, which is why I have never been a fan of identity politics. I believe it was well-intended, but does more harm than good. It divides us into groups that are encouraged to hate one another. I am a firm believer in a respectful conversation, which is why I loved the suggestions in your article as to how we could have them! Thank you! Yes, people should feel safe, always. But nowadays the word "safe" has also been used to shut down important conversations. "I don't feel safe" by the slightest challenge and the conversation is over. I feel that some of the criticism aimed at the progressive left about cancellations of dissident voices was valid. The Liberal prime minister I voted for in Canada because he said that "diversity was Canada's strength" behaved in a shocking manner during covid. The trucker's protest should have never gotten so out of hand if those people were at the very least listened to. Honestly, I was so appalled at what was happening in this exemplary liberal democracy, and it triggered some uncomfortable memories from my communist childhood. And now, post October 7 and the ongoing horrors in Gaza, the same people who were so passionately preaching "free speech" called for the cancellation and the firing of people! So cancellation is something that both parties are exercising and are guilty of. I haven't yet watched the documentary (I will) so I cannot comment on it, but "the Witch Trials of JK Rolling" was one of the most thought-provoking podcasts I've ever listened to, and highly recommend.
I am a mother too (to a 13 and 15 y girls) and I see much to be concerned about. Yes, access to phones and social media at a young age is definitely bad, and sometimes dangerous. Lack of constructive, respectful conversations, and NUANCE (because most things are complex!) is another problem. "Either, or" and "us against them" approach is a huge contributor to the problem. Encouraging kids to choose their gender at the age of 11 at a sex ed at school (like my daughters were cued to do) when they barely know what sex is and are still developing, is absolute madness in my opinion. And then, I also think that we parents play a part. As someone who grew up in absolute emotional neglect, I have a natural tendency towards over-protection and "helicopter parenting". While this is understandable, it is not always healthy for our kids.
I'm not sure I have managed to articulate the various complexities and nuances to this question :( All I meant to say was that rarely anything is black or white. They could be valid points to both sides of the argument and the 'truth', or solution is probably somewhere between the two. In conclusion, you give us much to ponder on and I'm grateful.
Imola, thank you so much for this thoughtful comment. Your perspective as someone born in communist Hungary is a really important one. There's a lot of nuance here, which is why I'd like this discussion to continue (and I'll be posting a conversation thread about it today). You raise two important points: the first is the need for respectful communication when debating provocative ideas — that is, listening to what the other person has to say, *really* listening. It's hard to do, but it is where the best conversation I've had come from. With that in mind, alt-right media has fostered extreme disrespect for the other side. You could see the fallout from this hectoring style in the congressional hearing with the three college presidents. They were publicly shamed in manner I find unacceptable.
Your second point is that cancellation is happening on both sides of the political spectrum, a counterpoint that the film doesn't adequately address. The systematic take-down of "critical race theory" by alt-right writers such as Christopher Rufo has led to conservative politicians and parents worrying their white kids will be offended by the very idea that they might be racist or exert white privilege. Forget the trigger warnings; let's just erase teaching of the history of slavery so it doesn't "hurt" kids. Again, I find such erasure unacceptable and very far from the ideal of free speech advocated in the "Coddling" film and book.
Yes, I’m with you Martha! 100%! Respectful conversation starts with really listening- meaning, with the intention to understand, not the intention to respond!! It’s so needed! I am a yoga teacher and writer and has made it my mission to foster these safe spaces where we can listen, try to understand and share our perspectives. I am in for any community/ way of facilitating these difficult conversations. If disappointments/ grievances are not probably addressed , in a vacuum they can morph into something far more dangerous. Jon Stewart said it best: https://youtu.be/6V_sEqfIL9Q?si=hYAVOoHKfKxOFo7t
And I’m with you completely on those 2 examples! Thank you for raising this important issue & perspective. It feels exhausting sometimes to try and make this world a little kinder. Nice to know you have allies! :) 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
That's fabulous, Imola — do you know about the organization Braver Angels? It speaks to having these difficult conversations and might click for your: https://braverangels.org/
No! So thank you for sharing!!
This is so fantastic and gives me much hope! I don’t love in the US though. I think by his movement should spread worldwide! The same frictions exist also in Canada, Hungary and Israel (the three countries Im a citizen of), but I’m sure elsewhere!
It sounds to me like you agree with Lukianoff and Haidt about far more than you disagree.
Sort of, Casey, but the ramped-up tone of the film bothers me, along with the way it's being promoted – it has the feel of a moral panic, without giving any time to the other side, which undercuts the whole message. I agree with the need to encourage healthy debate on campus, but I also believe focusing too much on extreme student behavior and DEI policies skews everything toward a conservative view of all those snowflake kids. And given the concerted attack by the alt-right on DEI now, there are real political ramifications, especially in a film that leans on anecdotal stories and provides no counterpoints.
It's sad that things have gotten to the point where we can largely agree with the content of a work, but be "troubled" because it might be used as propaganda by those by those we *don't* agree with. It's sort of like saying that "The Origin of Species" should not have been published because it might inspire social Darwinism, whether or not or those different ideas have any merit (or whether that was Darwin's intention).
I'd frame the trouble differently, because there is a lot of implicit bias in the "Coddling" film itself – it's not just being used for propaganda. The filmmakers and authors like Greg Lukianoff do not acknowledge their own libertarian biases, and I hold them accountable for that. Their approach results in another kind of speech "chill," one in which they ignore the experiences of those who disagree with them.
I am also sad about the divisive speech of partisan politics and how it influences everything else, but my main culprit for the mess we're in is digital media and those who control the platforms. One of many results is that commentary on either side of the political spectrum now mostly sounds the same, with little divergence of opinion from commentator to commentator. I call that impoverished speech.